The Chronic Curmudgeon

Kurt Vonnegut would agree with you. I tried to buy his book today, but local "McBooks Store" didn't have any copies yet.

You forgot 9/11, global wars and strife, AIDS and disease, terrorism, nuclear proliferation, global warming and pollution, and on and on.

In the Modern Age, we have killed more people in the name of the state--communism, fascism, Nazism, Islamo-fascism, Empire--than in the whole of history in the name of religion.

Maybe we should all become Jesus nuts: "Love one another" and the Golden Rule and "Love Thy Enemy" and "Feed the poor and homeless." I'm not a religious nut but I do think this may be it. May God have mercy on us all.

Nut, if only the religious here on Earth had anything whatsoever to do with the lessons of the Bible. Sadly, down here religion is little more than an excuse to exercise power and control.

And not for nothing, but your statement about killing more in the name of the state than in the name of religion strikes me as one of the more historically ignorant statements I've ever read on my blog. You're entitled to your opinion, of course -- and I'm not going to hammer you for holding it -- but I don't think many folks are going to agree with you or take your argument as seriously as you'd like, when you couch in a statement like that. (Although I do give you credit for correctly - in my opinion - identifying that the current wave of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is more based on power/state aspirations than in religion.)

Do the math. The Age of Modernity incudes the Age of Discovery, the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Age of Reason, the Englightenment, and several other periods. Major wars include the English Civil War, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Revolution of 1848, the Russian Revolution, WWI,
WWII, Vietnam, Korea, the Cold War, and the Gulf Wars (among many, many other regional wars).

History is divided into Ancient History, the Middle Ages, and the Modern. Back out all atrocities comitted during the Ancient and Middle Age periods in the name of religion that were certainly committed to further political and/or economic ambitions, and I'll bet I'm right. Sounds like a good research project--eh, Chronic?

Tis unfortunate that our 'thoughts and hearts' are rarely dispensed prior to that which might otherwise not be as disastrous.

"You know, it's a good thing I'm not one of those end-of-the-world religious nuts, because if I were I might be convinced that this was it."

Perhaps if you were one of these 'end-of-the-world religious nuts', you might actually get off yours and do something about that which might put off the reveletionary end these 'nuts' are so enthusiastic in cracking over our heads. I personally do not care what a person's beliefs are, but what it empowers her/im to do about the evils that have instituted themselves as the towering landmarks of the western idea of the 'modern' era.

The increase in violence may simply be a byproduct of population explosion, Nut and 'Mudge. In other words, for the sake of this argument, say 6 billion (or however many it is) people had been alive during the times of the Inquisition and Holy Wars. Perhaps as many would have died then as died in the 20th century, for instance.

On the other hand, perhaps the rise of the nation state's hegemony (and monopoly on violence) is itself a byproduct of population explosion. Is it possible, in fact, to blame all our problems, the rise of the nation state's power and violence included, on the Industrial Revolution's impact on population boom?

I'm rambling and getting circular. But you get the point.

Mudge, maybe we should start calling you "The Chronic." LOL...

"You know, it's a good thing I'm not one of those end-of-the-world religious nuts, because if I were I might be convinced that this was it."

I think it's important to remember that religion is no prerequisite for seeing that we are witnessing what is probably the end. The "end," after all, doesn't need any religious meaning attached to happen.

And therein resides the religiously inclined's folly. They sit up on their thrones at the helm of the Christian Right, or Fundamentalist Islam, or whatever, acting as if the end will consult them before it happens because it is somehow "holy."

Bullshit.

Inquisitor, yes you are correct. Population growth has been one contributor to the increase in non-religious wars/atrocities/oppressions/conflicts. But you're missing one key ingredient--advancing technological society. The guillotine, gas chambers, the Gatling gun, B-52 bombers, the A-bomb: all technological advances that could accommodate the burgeoning population. In other words, only 7000 Union and Confederate soldiers died (outright) after 3 tortuous days of hashing it out at Gettysburg. Throw in a few tanks, some fully automatic guns, two or three B-52 runs, and the number increases geometrically.

The point I'm trying to make--as historically ignorant as some of you may think I am--is the bumper sticker slogan, "Religion has caused more wars, pain, suffering, etc. in the world than anything else," is incorrect. Religion is not the cause. We are.